Ford to Cut Jobs

ok...just for argument's sake im going to totally ignore the fact that the whole basis of your argument assumes that even the people who aren't Christians have to abide by Christian morals

we will take a look at the Bible since you (and many other conservatives) like to bring that up in most topics...i guess somehow since im a democrat (i would say liberal instead of democrat though but thats just me) that im no longer a Christian...i guess i can conclude that since you are republican(conservative) that you are selfish, holier than thou and love to hunt

one thing that you need to realize is that you will never ehar a liberal supporter say that they want to kill babies...who the hell does??? the only thing that liberals suport is the right of the people involved to be able to CHOOSE whether or not they can do something...if you believe in the BIble then you will have to answer to your choices, but to take away the right to choose of a person who may or may not believe in Christianity goes against everything this country was founded for

lets take a look at some Bible verses:

"For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Luke 18:25

now...youd think that all the rich conservatives would be rushing to the nearest homeless shelter to throw away all their belonings to them since they're so enthralled in the Bible...maybe they seem to have skipped over this verse [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

"Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty."? Leviticus 5:2

this one is for all you deer hunters out there...anyone know how to field dress a deer?...well according to this you really shouldnt know how and should never touch the carcas of the deer, since it is unclean

"Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you."? Leviticus 11:3-7

anyone up for some barbecue?? any of you who have ate pork are now deemed unclean according to this verse...also according to the verse before....anyone who has touched a dead pig (or a pigskin) is also unclean...how do all the football lovers feel about that one?

"These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you"? Leviticus 11:9-10

this one is for all that like crab, lobster, crawdads and the like

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days."? Leviticus 12:2-5

this verse is interesting in that it is saying that men are more important than women...if a child is a boy then the mother is unclean for 7 days...if it's a girl then it's 2 weeks! this could anger some of the females on this board


NOW, for my big talking point...this next verse discusses whether or not an unborn child is a living object:

"If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. 23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."? Exodus 21:22-25

so if the unborn child is killed, he must pay a sum...which in these days if a man were to steal, tarnish, ruin a property he must pay a sum to the owner...so this is saying that an unborn child is property

but yet, if the woman is harmed then he must pay with his life

so lets recap:

unborn child = property
living woman = life

so in essence, abortion is not killing of a person, it is tarnishing a property, and since the woman is the ones who "owns" the fetus...she is giving up something she owns, also of which we have no right to deny her that choice

how are you going to tell a 13 year old rape victim that she HAS to have that child and be reminded of the pain she suffered every time she would look at that child?

how about if a father rapes his own daughter and the baby would be born with serious malformations and defects, should she still have that baby?

who are we to tell a woman what to do with her body? then explain it's because of a deity that she may or may not even believe in...i dont see any of the other religions forcing their ideals upon us...who says we are any better to be able to do it to them?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
our laws forbide murder so therefore, abortians should be aghainst the law also

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Smoking kills people, alcohol kills people, getting behind the wheel can kill people, so why aren't they against the law??

just tryin to ruffle some feathers in the post earlier, im for gay marriage tho, if they want to, let em..

as for abortion, i know it is wrong and whatnot, but i hope they never pass laws forbiding it. Usually if someone is wanting to have an abortion, they are not gonna be able to support the baby, so lets just let em have it, kill it theirselves, or better yet, let them grow up wanting and needing, then die from some sickness because their parent can't take care of em? Sure, let em suffer for X amount of years?
If the abortion is needed, get it

this is just one particular verse i wanted to emphasize about. </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
"For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Luke 18:25

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You have oviously miss read this verse or just not ahve understood it. what it is saying is for a rich man to use his money on objects that arent very christain like. such as drugs, alchahol, sex, ect.
also u have got those verses out of a study bible or some bible of the sort. those verses arent 100% accurate. study bibles and bibles simialr to them are people opinions on what a verse means. someone has went through and taken the original bible and read it and writtin down what they beilieve what it meant. these people arent just regualr people they r people such as preacher who know the bible inside out. there are several stories in the bible and verses that can be turned into different meaning. i am not going to go into detail because i could be here all nightr long. from what i understand about revelations, once everyone in the world have heard about the gospel, the lord is going to come back. and if u ahvent read revelations everyone need to. even if you r morman, atheist, it dont matter. that has to be the scariest thin i have ever read. i mean when the things that revelations mentioned happen i pray that the lord brings his people to heaven because it si going to be BAD. as i said earlier, i could spend all night talking about this but i am going to quit now. one more thing. when u r talking about BBQ, and pigs being unclean, the world has changed since the B.C. times. well i am going to stop this now since i have rambled on long enough

youre EXACTLY right...times HAVE changed since the B.C. times

so who is to say that gay rights aren't just another change...i mean the Bible does condone slavery and mass murder..and we all know that has changed

anyways...got those verses from the Bible on my desk...just a black one with Bible written on it...doesnt have a KJV or anything of that sort written on it so i wouldnt know whether your accusations of study Bible are true or not

you are right about another thing though....that the Bible is and has been interpreted in very different ways over the years and can still be done today...it is a great tool to base our own lives upon and how we should live day-to-day...but should not be used as a way to tell others how they should live...it is THEIR choice whether or not to be a Christian, which also makes it THEIR choice on Christian morals...some Christian morals are accepted internationally among everyone and every religion (i.e. killing, stealing, etc.) some are not and those that are not should not be subject to those that do not share the same religion...if Mormons were in the majority in this country, how many of you would like it for them to force their ideals upon you?

(Not to a particular person GCD22, thread comment)We spent up the surplus [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Ford is right where daddy Bush bailed them out the first time, I hate to see anybody out of work , but I guess, that is a nudder bunch of beer swillin' couch sittin Democrats.Somebody had'em figured that way. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] The "bailed out" remark is in refeerence to the first gas guzzler tax, that Bush or Reagan, one dropped and led up back to worse dependance on arab oil. Cut the speed limit, it will drop oil consumption RIGHT now , a drop from 70 to 55, resulted in about a 20% fuel saving the first time we played this game. And as far a Killing and innocent theme, the gent on the history channel the other night didn't seem to pleased with his own work. He claims what anybody can figure for their self- when we called in fire support in populated areas in "Nam it saved our lives, but sometimes we killed hundreds by mistake" , I never saw anybody tell that before, maybe I misunderstood what he said, but he was some upset with himself for ... well just living it seemed. It was the kids that got to him. Kinda makes ya wonder if maybe Bush ain't MAKIN terrorists, hell he is kinda gettin on my nerves, I'm in terror. Saw a figure of a billion Muslims in the world. Wonder why Bush never attends any kind of service for our fallen service men, won't even let the pics in the news?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You have oviously miss read this verse or just not ahve understood it.

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The bible is interrepted differently by everyone who reads it. Even after Martin Luther translated it to Germanic languages from Latin(and some translation was lost), everyone tends to read it differently. Luther even translated it in an attempt for everyone to read it the way he did, yet society couldnt. That just goes to show you, the way you read something may be different from the way GC read it. Thats definitely the case in the verse above.

The Qu'ran is much the same way as well, I hear everyday how americans think that you get 72 virgins for dying during maryterdom(what suicide bombers think they are doing) but that is a bad translation from the arabic scripture. The Qu'ran actually says that it isnt supposed to be translated to any other language but i guess muslim scholars felt they had to promote their religion, especially in the west to compete against Farrahkan's NOI.

Anyway, my point is what one may read in the bible may totally be differently interrpeted to someone else. *thinks back to jefferson versus hamilton*

BINGO- that promotes a lot of problems, [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Well I don't have a lot to say that has not already been posted...and since apparently I am not a christian because I too am liberal *wink to GCD22* I guess I will not be allowed without mass criticism to say much....but here goes

The crusades were killings, people were sent out to kill in the name of God, much like the jihad today. So if killing is wrong, how can you kill in the name of him? Just something to ponder...

Also....this may not be the place for it but I have a question....if hypothetically ship loads of soldiers from another country came here with weapons etc etc, should we not fight back, cause that is what we are apparently expecting from the Iraqi people. Dubya is an idiot, but so are most politicians democratic or republican. This one happens to be playing with other people's lives. War on Terror was supposed to catch Osama (who from what I understand was trained by our CIA..hmmm go figure) so where the hell is Osama?

a very good possiblity of him being dead because he was on dialysis going back to 2001 before 9/11 even happend. I cant imagine him lasting too long in the mountains even with a dialysis machine, it would be very tough living conditions regardless. But on the other hand, Bush would need to keep the Bin Laden search going to get reelected. Hey, why dont we invade Germany since thats where the 9/11 terrorists came from(Hamburg). Oh wait, Germany doesnt have any oil. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Times have changed, and how can we really go by something that was written years and years ago. Sin is sin. If taking someones life is a sin, then having sex before marriage or committing adultery is an equal sin. Though im sure that doesnt stop ppl having sex, and it certainly doesnt stop some ppl from killing. Thats where laws come in, and thats where the Constitution comes in. Thats why we created it, and thats why we have freedom of religion and thats why we have freedom.